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So I'm looking at exhausts and I really like the 2 into one look (plus the ability to keep the rear foot pegs). I've narrowed it down to two choices, either the Termignoni or the Torque Hammer. Both are about the same price. I've seen the exhaust comparison that streettracker did and I like what I see on the Termignoni. I've also seen the dyno sheets from the Torque hammer. I think the Torque Hammer is a bit lighter than the Termignoni though.

So what do you guys think? Which one would you go with?

I think I'm going to go with the Patriot Top Fueler for fueling either way, btw.


http://www.harleycustom.com/Prod-Te...Systems_for_Harley_XR_1200_Models-46-684.html

http://www.harleycustom.com/Prod-To...ley_Davidson_XR_1200_Motorcycles_-46-699.html
 

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I went with the TH and am really pleased I did.

Just a run down of the TH first:

Thrown on the dyno with Dris's generic map (No 02 sensors) it pulled 92 hp and 77.2 ft-lbs of torque (with the torque above 70 from 3000 rpm and above).
It previously ran 82hp 68ft-lbs on the same dyno with the Remus with supertrapp.
My bike with stock exhaust ran 78hp and 64ft-lbs on the same brand of dyno (Dynojet 250) but at a different shop.
So bottom line I would comfortably say the TH added 10 + hp and 10+ ft=lbs over stock.

It pulled a hp or two less with the other TH map running the o2 sensors.

Interestingly, Steve (Nerang dynotuner extrordinare) had tuned another XR1200 that had a D&D exhaust and power commander installed. Comparing dyno results you really couldnt choose between them. Both had 92 hp peak and the D&D had 0.6 more ft-lb of peak torque at 77.8....but the TH had 5 ft-lb more at 3500 rpm (the D&D just had a lit dip at that point). Like I said, nothing really in it BUT the D&D IMO was the performance benchmark. If you are matching that pipe for performance you are on the money. (The D&D is the performance benchmark but is 10 lbs heavier, louder and with less cornering clearance than standard). The D&D was specifically tuned for that bike. My dyno run was done using Dris's generic map. Mine could have been fine tuned specifically for my bike to pull another couple of horses.

Rideability.
I recently did 4000 kms in 5 days and the bike and exhaust performed admirably. Even 2 up the bike pulled like a train with no dead spots or stutters....basically ran smooth as silk. Since we were riding with petrol station 200kms apart I installed the map which uses the o2 sensors. It ran 20.4 kms per litre or around 260kms per tank which made the trip easier. I plan to run the other map on the local runs and run 200 km per tank.

The pipe clearance is much better than stock. It is comforting to know that the exhaust wont scrape straight after the footpegs do, like with the stock exhaust.

Comparing the TH to the Termi.
Power: The TH wins hands down IMO. I have not seen anyone pull D&D/TH numbers out of the Termi. I have seen a few Termi dyno runs and they seem to be pulling 5hp and 5ft-lbs more than stock. After fiddling with the Remus headers with supertrapp, I feel the Remus and Termi headers are just way too big. As I said above, I think the TH is pulling 10+ more HP and torque than stock.
If you like the Termi results on Streetrackers early dyno comparison, you would like his later comparison with the TH added. The TH is pulling 6hp and 6+ ft-lbs more for most of the upper mid range.

Looks: The Termi headers look better but the tail pipe is way too long IMO. I prefer the TH except for the front header pipe bend.....but looks are your call anyway...you dont need my opinion.

Weight, clearance and build quality: I dont think there is much in it.

Sound: Hard to tell from the internet clips of the Termi....but I really do like the sound of my TH.

Cost: I though the TH was way cheaper!!
 

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www.jp2code.net
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20,701 Posts
Termignoni builds exhaust for any bike out there, and any motorcycle nut can point you towards where to get them.

The Torque Hammer was built, tweaked and redesigned specifically for the XR1200 by one group: Twin Motorcycles in the Netherlands.

So, grab bag (Termi) or made to order (TH)?
 

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It aint no good locking the doors, when the madnes
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7,311 Posts
I went with the TH and am really pleased I did.

Just a run down of the TH first:

Thrown on the dyno with Dris's generic map (No 02 sensors) it pulled 92 hp and 77.2 ft-lbs of torque (with the torque above 70 from 3000 rpm and above).
It previously ran 82hp 68ft-lbs on the same dyno with the Remus with supertrapp.
My bike with stock exhaust ran 78hp and 64ft-lbs on the same brand of dyno (Dynojet 250) but at a different shop.
So bottom line I would comfortably say the TH added 10 + hp and 10+ ft=lbs over stock.

It pulled a hp or two less with the other TH map running the o2 sensors.

Interestingly, Steve (Nerang dynotuner extrordinare) had tuned another XR1200 that had a D&D exhaust and power commander installed. Comparing dyno results you really couldnt choose between them. Both had 92 hp peak and the D&D had 0.6 more ft-lb of peak torque at 77.8....but the TH had 5 ft-lb more at 3500 rpm (the D&D just had a lit dip at that point). Like I said, nothing really in it BUT the D&D IMO was the performance benchmark. If you are matching that pipe for performance you are on the money. (The D&D is the performance benchmark but is 10 lbs heavier, louder and with less cornering clearance than standard). The D&D was specifically tuned for that bike. My dyno run was done using Dris's generic map. Mine could have been fine tuned specifically for my bike to pull another couple of horses.

Rideability.
I recently did 4000 kms in 5 days and the bike and exhaust performed admirably. Even 2 up the bike pulled like a train with no dead spots or stutters....basically ran smooth as silk. Since we were riding with petrol station 200kms apart I installed the map which uses the o2 sensors. It ran 20.4 kms per litre or around 260kms per tank which made the trip easier. I plan to run the other map on the local runs and run 200 km per tank.

The pipe clearance is much better than stock. It is comforting to know that the exhaust wont scrape straight after the footpegs do, like with the stock exhaust.

Comparing the TH to the Termi.
Power: The TH wins hands down IMO. I have not seen anyone pull D&D/TH numbers out of the Termi. I have seen a few Termi dyno runs and they seem to be pulling 5hp and 5ft-lbs more than stock. After fiddling with the Remus headers with supertrapp, I feel the Remus and Termi headers are just way too big. As I said above, I think the TH is pulling 10+ more HP and torque than stock.
If you like the Termi results on Streetrackers early dyno comparison, you would like his later comparison with the TH added. The TH is pulling 6hp and 6+ ft-lbs more for most of the upper mid range.

Looks: The Termi headers look better but the tail pipe is way too long IMO. I prefer the TH except for the front header pipe bend.....but looks are your call anyway...you dont need my opinion.

Weight, clearance and build quality: I dont think there is much in it.

Sound: Hard to tell from the internet clips of the Termi....but I really do like the sound of my TH.

Cost: I though the TH was way cheaper!!
Gotta be the best written exhaust write up on the site :clap::clap:
 

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I'm not gonna argue that the Termi pulls better numbers or is lighter, better looking, more ground clearance yada yada yada. IMHO it was simply the best available at the time I was looking to replace the stockers (due to an encounter with a coyote that left the stockers severly damaged). That was over a year ago, and the TH were unavailable at the time. So in my case:

 

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This is a tough call; purely from a "For the Money" stand point, the T-H is the better value.
I am probably the only one on here that has a lot of miles with both systems. I put around 4,000 miles on the Termi before getting the T-H from Dris. I have put about 1,000 on the T-H.
There are some differences that I have observed;
~ On our Dyno, The Termi made more power below 4250RPM, the T-H made more above, until 7000 where they were essentially identical. The reality is, they feel about the same on the street.
~ The T-H is slightly lighter, the lightest on the market.
~ The T-H vibrates more. I'm not sure why, or even exactly where it's coming from, but I suspect it's the lower mount. It's not obtrusive, but it definitely exists.
~ The sound - very subjective of course. The T-H is quieter at idle than the Termi, but a little louder when you get on it. I like the sound of the Termi better personally.
~ Looks, like sound, are subjective. For a two into one, I think the Termi may be the best looking yet produced, especially with the little details like the Carbon Fiber heat shields.

I don't think it's fair to comment that Termi is a "Grab Bag" type exhaust. Just because they are a big manufacturer doesn't mean they don't put considerable time and research into each system they develop. They are some of the finest systems in the world. Dris, through his testing, has teamed up with a very large manufacturer, who build for every bike as well, to come out with a private label product that works very well, but to slight the Termi because they are a big company is silly.

The T-H is still on my bike and will probably remain until I rework my BUB's to get a reasonable noise level out of them.
 

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ST, you should post up that pic of your bike with the Torque Hammer to go alongside Geno's Termi. Then, we can start talking about Geno's gear cover verses your bikini cover.
Joe, Joe,......calling Joe.......It is a pulley cover. over......
 

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ST, you should post up that pic of your bike with the Torque Hammer to go alongside Geno's Termi. Then, we can start talking about Geno's gear cover verses your bikini cover.
OK

I'm not gonna argue that the Termi pulls better numbers or is lighter, better looking, more ground clearance yada yada yada. IMHO it was simply the best available at the time I was looking to replace the stockers (due to an encounter with a coyote that left the stockers severly damaged). That was over a year ago, and the TH were unavailable at the time. So in my case:

 

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I was looking hard at the Termi with the carbon end can. Looks wise I thought it took some beating, although the TH end can is a bit slimmer looking.

I asked for feedback from the forum and got a lot of recommendations for the Torque Hammer. I'm also sure the full TH Stage 1 kit (in black) cost 25% less than the Termi pipe alone.

Wouldn't change the TH now, pulls like a train and definately gets my vote.
 

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Bloke
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1,272 Posts
If there's not much difference between them, then I'd take the TH everyday.
You're helping a fellow member from this site, who spends a lot of time working on XR's, iis easy to find if you have any problems and also ran a discount on them for site members.

It's a no brainer :)
 
G

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I have the V&H suspension risers and no rear pegs...WTH am I gonna do? I guess my only option is the V&H exhaust...
 
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