Oldsport,
It did the trick for me too! Much better than the stock setup!

 

Oldsport,
It did the trick for me too! Much better than the stock setup!

Yep, we're looking like a couple a smart guys these days...except we're poorer that we might have been.

I'm disappointed that they would sell something as poorly matched as the originals.
Did I mention that I want the cost accountant fired who thinks he knows more about motorcycles than the people in product development?

 

Did you know that Harley specify a completely different fork oil for the XRX forks?

 

yes

 

That sounds like a really good price.

I've been communicating with a guy that upgrades the stock 2009 forks with the Ohlins kit. It is still single leg, but he says it's much better than the X-package.

The cost is right at $1000, though. So, for under $1300, I get the fronts and rears? I could resell the rears for $300-500 and I'm already ahead. Plus, I'd have to ship my forks to the East Coast to get the work done. ...with no gorillas to hold my XR up while I ride to work!

 

That sounds like a really good price.

It is still single leg, but he says it's much better than the X-package.

At a $1000, I hope he'd say that. I sure would.

I'm one who happens to think that one leg could do the work of two if properly engineered.

After all, everything is bolted together, right? I'm not aware of any law of physics that says you need to have two doing the work. It would seem that if everything was in one leg, there could be a certain functional consistency that might be more difficult to achive with 2 separate legs sharing the work.

We need an unbiased tester who's willing to invest in both approaches and report back~:stupid:

 

Don't know about you Joe, but I wouldn't want to pay $1000 just to have one leg doing the work. Little bit more, can't Howard do both legs. And can't you just buy the X forks from Harley for around 800? That's what I'm thinking I remember someone saying a while back.

 

i recently just upgraded to the rear x shocks and now the front shows up and seems evan worse! the back rides nice but going over choppy bumps it feels like the front end is out there jumping up and down doing whatever it wants

 

One problem with the Ohlins Fork upgrade is that there is no adjustment capability where as there is a full range with the Showa forks. All things being equal, I like that fine tuning ability although I do trust Howard's (MotorcycleMetal) setup capability.

Where is the best pricing for Showa BPF forks only?

 

One problem with the Ohlins Fork upgrade is that there is no adjustment capability where as there is a full range with the Showa forks. All things being equal, I like that fine tuning ability although I do trust Howard's (MotorcycleMetal) setup capability.

Where is the best pricing for Showa BPF forks only?

Try Zanotti's HD for parts
http://shop.zanottimotor.com/content/parts-department
Left front BPF fork - #48771-10
Right front BPF fork-#48778-10

Regards
Roy

 

zanotti has good service gotta say. they sent me a x shock and the orange powder was chippd prolly 4-5 different spots as soon as i got it out of the box i calld them and sent it back. they orderd me a new one and they evan paid for the shipping

 

Thanks for the link - it really does make the BPF's a cost effective upgrade. They may not be better than a full Ohlins system, but they can't help but be worlds better than the first generation wooden posts.

I may see if the Dealer I bought the bike from will match Z's pricing...most dealers seem to be more willing to negotiate on pricing these days.

 

So, how would the Showa BPF compare to an old 1-leg upgrade by FastHarley (i.e. Howard Messner)?

 

JoeP: Howard will tell you that they routinely rip the guts out of the BPF's and install Ohlins components. Give him a call as he is quite an Ohlins enthusiast and interesting to talk to besides.

Unlike the XR group I may be riding with at the end of the month, I am not a racer and don't play one on TV (old Marcus Wellby ad...). But i do appreciate good suspension and any upgrade to the front end will be a welcome one. The fine tune ability of the BPFs and price have my attention at the moment.

 

I contacted him, but what he said left me with more questions than answers.

Which would I want?

On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 7:52 AM, Howard Messner <howard@motorcyclemetal.com> wrote:
There are 2 different modifications, again both radically different.

1) Ohlins piston (rebound shim stack) & compression (w/holder) on the bottom that slides into the existing cartridge.

2) Single sided drop in cartridge that is externally adjustable compression, rebound, and spring preload. Always was better than the BP but is no longer available from Ohlins.

Afterthought: I am the only one who machines and developed a 30 mm Ohlins kit inside of the old style forks. There simply is no comparison between a BP & a 30 mm Ohlins cartridge system.

My associate and BP development partner, Mike "Thermosman" Fitzgerald works on them routinely at the track & shop. A big improvement can be had by modifying the BP system. Unfortunately, no matter what you can do, they will never offer the performance of a 30 mm Ohlins. Ohlins makes a 30 mm cartridge kit that replaces the BP internals easily also. We (Mike & Myself) are working on a complete kit that all of the modifications done for the BP proven on the track & set up for the rider prior to shipping but that is another story.

I hope I have answered your question.


Thank You, Howard G. Messner
1-954-449-6173 E.S.T.
http://motorcyclemetal.com/​

 

BPF - ummmm supple heh, heh

 

JoeP:

It sounds as if there are now only two options from Howard since the cartridge option was dropped: Drop in (what sounds like any way) Ohlins progressive springs and gold valve emulators or have him build you his custom Ohlins 30mm kit in your forks. Did Howard give you any pricing?

 

I didn't have to ask - he's got it posted there on his website:

Öhlins 30mm fork kit installation into your forks. You are responsible for all shipping and boxing.

• XR1200 BP X type forks: Öhlins 30mm cartridges put into your forks with Öhlins Fork Oil, assembled & choice of springs: $1,440.00
• XR1200 Old style forks, axle clamp machined, new one off fork caps, Öhlins 30mm cartridges put into your forks with Öhlins Fork Oil, assembled & choice of springs: $1,710.00. All must be assembled at our facility.

Above pricing does not including seals, bushings, or replacing any unserviceable parts. Pricing is as per HD parts book. No additional labor charges are required.​

(I added the BOLD type to point out stuff)

That's why I want to know if his kit is that much better than the BPF, which I can pick up already assembled for $800 or so with shipping and no XR down time.

So, $1710 plus parts, shipping and down time on one hand.

Or $800 for the BPF kit and sell my stockers to recover a little.

There has GOT to be something I'm missing!

 

You could be missing a thousand bucks if you go the Ohlins route...<grin>.

Howard's web site was under construction when I had last looked.

 

Personally I could never justify Ohlins up front, my race bikes had Race Tech stuff up front and at the end of my racing career I was running the Penske's on the rear. For the street my race suspension was Horrible ( My Opinion ) due to road conditions etc etc ..

 

Understood Craig.

I'm leaning towards the BPF upgrade ...unless someone can tell me why I'd need the more elaborate forks.

 

Holy cats! for that price you could get a whole used 250 ninja! just for a fork! you gotta ask yourself: are you a racer in highpaying competition? does it really justify that price!? more then likely the "x" kit will do you just fine! im just rocking the x rear shocks for now and i think its money well spent and evan with good shocks on the back it really makes the poor front end standout evan worse.

 

From my standpoint, the cost of the Ohlins rear shocks was such a great investment over the '09 pogo sticks and comparable in price to other systems out there.

But on the front, the BPFs, for a non racer like myself, are clearly the most cost effective upgrade over the wooden posts that the stock forks are. Would I prefer Ohlins? Absolutely - they really are that great, but not at the price points being quoted. I'll go with the BPFs.

 

But on the front, the BPFs, for a non racer like myself, are clearly the most cost effective upgrade over the wooden posts that the stock forks are. Would I prefer Ohlins? Absolutely - they really are that great, but not at the price points being quoted. I'll go with the BPFs.

Are we talking about real Öhlins forks or conversion/upgrading of the stock forks with Öhlins parts? As far as I know nobody compared the old forks with a good conversion/upgrade (either from Öhlins, Race Tech etc) with stock BPFs. But as the stock old forks are soooo awful, the BPFs are already an improvement. Go figure...

The XR ranks among the bikes with the worst stock suspension I've had in 25 years. It's hard to believe just how ill Harley managed to get the setup front & rear (ok, looking at the rest of the Harley line-up they tried at least). Effectively shooting the excellent bike hiding underneath through its knees. Such a shame! But on the upside, the XR responds so well on suspension improvements that it makes them very worth while and rewarding.

I know the stock BPFs well and they are... I choose my words friendly... 'less than mediocre' at best. I don't think the BPFs are a cost effective upgrade at all. It's a lot of money to go from miserable to poor. The BPFs also need a good kit/conversion to turn them into a decent working front end.

If cost effectiveness is the goal, my money would be on converting/upgrading the old stock forks without a doubt.

 

thats how i feel too saint, theyre nice and all but for the average guy never get his money out of them if not on the track

 

Dammit XRCrush, you just had to go and give your convincing commentary! Particularly since I run Ohlins front and rear on my GS and can attest to the complete transformation they made to the bike. Of course the total package on that bike is less than the fork conversion alone on this one.

A quick web search finds Ohlins cartridge systems retailing for about $1300 (STG, eg). Howard will provide that plus the setup for a few dollars more, has the experience and he does great work.

But it is still 2x the BPF upgrade cost in a tough economy...but I do hate spending good money on bad things.

Perhaps a simple Ohlins spring swap and add gold valve emulators?

 

I hardly think the BPF's are crap, I would be willing to bet most riders wouldn't be able to tell the difference between the 09 forks with Ohlin Cartridges and a set of Stock BPF's on the street ( if set up correctly ). The only problem with Gold Valve emulators is there is no external adjustment, kind of makes it a pain in the butt to fine tune. Gold Valves on a set of BPF's some lighter oil and a good set of springs would be awesome for any Club Racer ( CCS or WERA ) or Track Day Warrior. A lot of folks tend to do the rear first which is totally opposite of my preference, I actually had a rear shock failure, ZX6R, during an endurance race. Lost all the Nitrogen. Anyway we still managed a top 10 with the rear end sliding all over the place. If the front end is planted and feels solid I'm a happy guy, but if its pushing or chattering I'll pull off the track. Pretty much same goes for the street, at least for me.

I'm pretty happy with the rear settings on the X Shocks but I am still trying to find the sweet spot on compression, The spring rate seems to be ok but they are using 10wt fork oil. I might end up changing to 5wt Ultra Slick Suspension fluid and most likely changing out the springs from the .58 to to something a bit stiffer depending on how much the fluid changes it.

Anyway, suspension is not VooDoo, it just takes some time to figure out what really feels good to you and its not always the most expensive option.

 

I hardly think the BPF's are crap

The BPFs are not crap, the Harley setup is. Big time. The springs are too soft with way too much initial preload giving a harsh and choppy ride while the springs remain too soft when needed (on the brakes, hitting bumps on the brakes, cornering etc.). Next, both compression and rebound damping are too high on the initial travel and there's virtually no high speed damping progression (higher speed fork movement, not the bikes' speed). Again giving a harsh and choppy feel while the bike feels mushy when push a bit. This comes from wrong valves/shim stacks.

These problems can not be ironed out with the adjustments.

It's only when you get them set up right with a good kit that it becomes clear just how far off the stock forks are.

I would be willing to bet most riders wouldn't be able to tell the difference between the 09 forks with Ohlin Cartridges and a set of Stock BPF's on the street ( if set up correctly ).

Oh yes you will. Given how poor the setup of both forks is, converted/upgraded 09 forks will be a night & day improvement over stock BPFs. It's a common misperception that only 'racers & aces' can feel suspension improvements. Everybody feels better suspension, including Johnny (below) average. You might not be able to point out what you feel exactly but you'll experience a much nicer more complaint ride with better handling and feedback giving a lot more convidence. Even if this would only translate to "I like this better"...


Richard

 

It's funny. I've taken hands on seminars, studied the engineering and still think there is an element of voodoo to suspension set up. For a street rider like me it's more feel than anything else. That's what i liked about your BPF setup - it is easy to tweak.

But there has been a common lament on Showa quality for years and hearing it again on this forum does give me cause for concern. Throwing in some Ohlins springs and an emulator is relatively easy. And we have New England winters to pull the front end apart to readjust, right?! Perhaps you can give me a hand when I decide which direction I'm heading in.

Am indeed planning on the XR ride - save me one of those 1,000 spaces!

 

Ah Grasshopper there is a bit more to the emulators than you think, the last set I installed required doing some drilling on internal fork parts, and then you also had to figure out your shim stack and pressure on the stack. Where as with adjustable forks a turn of a screw and your there.. Ok 999 spots left hehehe