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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Okay, so the story is a little thin but it is from John Burns, a guy that knows what he's talking about. Over at motorcycle.com they've posted:

What?! We didn’t know there was an Indian 750? The smallest engine Indian makes is the 60-incher (1000cc) that goes in the Scout 60. And yet, this from the AMA, stating that as of Feb. 25, a 750 Indian Twin is approved for competition.
Our Indian rep, Robert Pandya, tells us the 750 is in fact a race-only version, and has no further comment except this: “Those who think we are shying away from anything are underestimating the enthusiastic commitment to this brand.” Stay tuned as this breaking story unfolds.

The AMA press release says:
The following engine has been added to the list of twin-cylinder engines approved for AMA Pro Flat Track competition:
  • Indian Motorcycle Race 750 (race-only engine)

I don't mind telling you guys, I'm looking forward to this! :clap:
 

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If it is indeed a "Race Only" engine, I wonder if it will be as restricted as the Harley XR750 motor is.
Didn't the AMA remove the big restrictions on the XR engines since the Kawi's became so competitive?
 

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Don't touch me there!
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Didn't the AMA remove the big restrictions on the XR engines since the Kawi's became so competitive?
Yep. The hot rumor for a couple of years now is that the street 750 motor will be the basis of a new H-D flat tracker but I think we'll be seeing XR 750's on the grid for an awfully long time. They're well sorted and make a ton of power but are awfully finicky when that highly tuned. The Kawis are cheaper to buy and cheaper to run and they win (although, to be fair, Bryan Smith could probably win on a Vespa, he's seriously skilled) and with Graves bringing the Yamaha to the grid and now Indian, H-D may have to update their circa 1970 XR to stay in the hunt. We'll see. It isn't about the power so much as the delivery, or so I am told......
 

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NOPE - just looked at the 2015 GNC Rule book, XR750 and Honda RS750 Must run 33mm restrictors, Production motors are unrestricted. They also outlawed the "Twingleing" of the XR750 motor
 

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WTF???
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NOPE - just looked at the 2015 GNC Rule book, XR750 and Honda RS750 Must run 33mm restrictors, Production motors are unrestricted. They also outlawed the "Twingleing" of the XR750 motor
And most of the production motors are bigger than the 750cc that the XR is limited to.
 

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Don't touch me there!
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Please explain "Twingleing".
Changing the firing order, so that the the cylinders fire opposite each other (360 degrees), rather than stock (270 maybe). That gives the same effect as a single, thus the name. Relevant text from the rulebook:
To prohibit the practice of “twingling” a twin, any modification ofengine components to alter the stock OEM firing order/spacing ofthe cylinders is prohibited.
 

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Tell me something. Is the factory still building and selling new XR750 race engines, or is there now just a limited number of engines available for racers to use? It seems like a lot of these race bikes are ending up in the hands of private collectors.
 

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WTF???
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Tell me something. Is the factory still building and selling new XR750 race engines, or is there now just a limited number of engines available for racers to use? It seems like a lot of these race bikes are ending up in the hands of private collectors.
Last I heard Harley was still producing unfinished parts. Engine builders get the parts and have to do all the final machine work and assembling.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Ah, Couldn't find the 2016 book on line. Makes sense but they did have to run them in 2015, when the Kawi was obviously making big power. My bad :)
Actually seems like it's AMA Pro's bad, they ought to pick a set of rules and stick to it, too much changes year to year to try to keep it 'even'. Make it 750cc period and let's see who wins!
 

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Actually seems like it's AMA Pro's bad, they ought to pick a set of rules and stick to it, too much changes year to year to try to keep it 'even'. Make it 750cc period and let's see who wins!
It has been convoluted for ever. There was a time 750 made sense - there were lots of good 750 cc bikes when Class C started. And the people raced what they could buy. And they modified what they could buy. And then Harley said Hmmm, maybe we should build a special flat track only racing motorcycle, with a motor loosely based on the Sportster. And they won............... a lot. So the others went home. But that was OK since the British competition went out business anyway. And the Yamaha's just weren't competitive So it became the AMA Harley XR750 Flat Track Grand National Series - even if they didn't have the balls to call it that. Then in 1975 someone thought maybe we should stick a TZ750 2 stroke in a flat bike and have King Kenny ride. And it went like stink, Kenny said "they don't pay me enough.... " and everyone got scared and the AMA banned it. So it was back to Harley's XR750. But then a funny thing happened, Sochiro decided that his company might like to play. And after a couple of false starts, the RS750 came along in 1983 and promptly won it's first race, and the Harley guys cried foul, but AMA liked the new fans - so for the next 4 years Honda won the Championship - and then did what Honda likes to do, come on to conquer other worlds. And once again we were back to XR750's, and the faithful were happy. Well, except when Ricky decided to win the championship on the Honda one more time in '93, as a privateer. But then cooler heads prevailed and we watched Scotty Parker continue his winning ways to a record 9 Championships. Then it was Chris Carr's turn on the wining XR and he won 7 titles. But by the mid 2000's, the natives were restless and tired of nothing but Harley's. Folks had been building oddities for a while - Ducati's, Japanesse motors, Sporty's and Buell's - but Harley was still winning Championships. Then legendary Harley tuner Bill Werner, who retired from the factory Harley team got bored and built a Kawasaki Team with 3 time champion Jay Springsteen and all hell seemed to break loose.
XR fans cried foul when the funny looking Kawi won with Bryan Smith. And the rules have bounced all over since. First they said the Kawi's couldn't compete with the purpose built Harley's, so they restricted them. Then Werner figured it out, and the Harley was down on power. So they adjusted the restrictor, the Kawi was still fast. Now for '16 they eliminate it again. Who knows what will happen?

The funny thing is, through all the whining, finger pointing, allegations, and finally racing ~ Harley Davidson has won EVERY Championship since '93 and that pesky Honda of the Late Great Ricky.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
That's why I love the (tastefully named) Mad Dog class, 150 or 200cc, depending on the track, air cooled and that's it as far as rules go. Also, I've never seen a tech inspection. Not sure that would cut it on for pros on the national level but I'd be willing to give it a try!
 

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That's why I love the (tastefully named) Mad Dog class, 150 or 200cc, depending on the track, air cooled and that's it as far as rules go. Also, I've never seen a tech inspection. Not sure that would cut it on for pros on the national level but I'd be willing to give it a try!
150 or 200cc on the Mile would be like watching paint dry. Even a half mile would be boring!
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
150 or 200cc on the Mile would be like watching paint dry. Even a half mile would be boring!
True. Although I wouldn't mind if all the races were football shaped short tracks like the superprestigio of the americas, I suppose some would :whistling:. I'm just saying make it 750cc water cooled (or whatever) and leave it at that, the AMA shouldn't be tasked with making it 'fair' for all the brands/teams.
It looks like they're trying to make some changes like twins on the short tracks/tt's, leathers at all the races, etc., but those have gone over like a lead balloon. I'd say just make it an absolute cc limit.
Since I'm proposing sweeping changes that will never happen, I'd love to see a spec class like the old 883 class. Those were some great races that you could run without spending a ton of money.
Also, they should run the hooligan class at every race.
 
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