XR1200 Owners Group banner
1 - 20 of 41 Posts

·
I'll keel haul ya scurvy dogs!
Joined
·
31 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello XR1200 people of the internet! I don't know why it took me so long to post my problem in here, but I figured I should before I went and did something stupid(ier).
Here's what I'm working with, a 2009 Fast Orange XR that I've had since new in December 2008. She's only got around 11,000 miles on her.
The problem: Some time last fall, I decided to change plugs and whatnot before I put her away for the winter. When removing the rear plug, I felt a rise in torque, pop, followed by a rapid decrease in torque. That thing snapped off. Fairly clean at the top of the head with a good bit still threaded in, and electrode sticking out. Maybe it was crossthreaded the last time it was installed, don't know.
Now matter how or why, I need to get the remaining part of the plug out. Has anyone in here had this happen? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
Automotive tire Grey Line Wood Automotive design
Motor vehicle Hood Automotive tire Automotive design Bumper
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,346 Posts
I agree removing the head unless you want to take a chance of drilling it out or take it to a machine shop and have them do that it’s pretty much your only option. Do you know what spark plugs you have in there?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
765 Posts
Agree with above, removing the head is really the only option or else any debris is going to drop inside.
Probably caused by the plugs being in there since build and corroding in, I always put copper grease on the plug threads when replacing them.
Good luck with with the repair.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
457 Posts
redbeard7 I feel your pain and since you are asking for suggestions this is mine but I appreciate it might not be for you.

I have the tools to do that without removing the head, fortunately its possible to get a straight run in with the drill once the fuel tank is moved to one side or removed. Some debris will inevitably fall into the cylinder but with an air line most of it could be blown out especially if the exhaust valve is fully open, its important that the inlet valve is fully closed - with the other plug out and the bike in gear it will be possible to turn the engine over steadily to achieve this valve position (DO NOT USE THE STARTER) Cheap borescopes are available to check inside once the deed is done.

If you try this method its imperative you are confident with the drills and easyout extractors and don't damage the plug thread or seat. Also if the piston is at tdc be careful not to go deep with the drill and damage the top of the piston. If the front cylinder is near tdc the rear should be far enough down its bore to be safe.

It's a straightforward job for a competent machine/engineer shop and they will likely have a compressor and air line gun to blow out the debris. Like Housey says that plug has corroded in, a bit of copperslip or any similar anti-seize compound will stop that happening in future.

As well as appropriate drills you will need these


THE IMPORTANT BIT

If it was me I would try the above with the head in situ but I have the experience and the confidence to tackle it, if you think you can do it then crack on but if you read all the above and thought WTF then please give it to someone who can. :unsure:

Good luck!
 

·
I'll keel haul ya scurvy dogs!
Joined
·
31 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I've been tossing both ideas around in my head. I have the tools and ability to do both.
Skiddy,
That's some of the insights I was hoping to get. I have extractors which I was planning on using, as well as a nice little scope that I use with my phone.
Ultimately, removing the head is a much more safe plan, but also more time consuming (until I F something up and have to pull them anyway. Maybe I can make up my mind soon and get this thing done.

Joe W.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
765 Posts
Silly question, but have you just tried pulling the electrode to see if it and the ceramic will just pull out, because then hopefully an easyout would get the reminder of the thread out. I ask this because the ceramic stalk always seems to be held in by the top of the metal surround being burred over.
 

·
I'll keel haul ya scurvy dogs!
Joined
·
31 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Not a silly question at all. I haven't tried, or put much thought into it.
Automotive tire Tire Steering part Motor vehicle Alloy wheel
Wood Automotive tire Fish Landscape Hardwood

It pulled right out lewviotje ceramic in place.
Looking more and more like a head remove. I'm getting more and more leary about getting bits in the cylinder.
We'll see.
 

·
Let's Ride
Joined
·
538 Posts
Noooo, that's good. A couple of options.. hold a shop vac next to the hole while chipping away at the ceramic and maybe suck the pieces up before they fall in. Then when you get it all out, you may be able to suck or blow out what's left. Again, make sure the intake valve is shut. Also, you can put grease on a small punch and try to break the ceramic and hopefully most of it will stick to the grease and you can remove a little at a time. You need to get the ceramic out so the "easy out" will grip the broken plug. I would try these options before I removed the head. What I'm really afraid of is the threads are galled (most likely) and when you get the plug out, the threads in the head come out with it. BUT, that's not the end of the world. There are repair inserts that will fix that problem, even with the head on.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
765 Posts
If you're going to chip away the ceramic I'd be tempted to position the crank so the inlet valves are OPEN, then put a Vacuum on blow into the throttle ( whilst locked open of course ), that way any debris should be blown back out the hole in what's left of the spark plug.
 

·
I'll keel haul ya scurvy dogs!
Joined
·
31 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I'm tracking your logic Housey, just think I'm going to do it opposite. After reading the opinions and digesting them, I've decided to attempt to get it out without removing the head. I pulled the exhaust of this afternoon, and plan on blowing in the plug hole, and sucking out the exhaust hole. That sounds so fun. I plan on opening the exhaust valve and vaccuming that way. I've wanted to pull everything for a re-paimt anyway.
Unfortunately I only get to do a little bit of work at a time. This whole being married with 4 kids thing takes priority over fixing the bike, especially when I have another one that runs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
765 Posts
You could just blow in the exhaust, that way hopefully no debris will go into the cylinder. Plus how would you blow into the spark plug hole whilst working on it ?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
457 Posts
To avoid this Problem to the Future use a Copper/Metall Antisize to the Plugs and set it with the right Torque!!!.
Remove the Plugs every 5000 mls and this will not happen again.
Actually if you put any sort of anti-seize compound on the plug thread the 'correct' torque goes out of the window. Manufacturers assemble critical components dry and the subsequent recommended torque settings are dry to eliminate any variation in clamping force and/or stripped threads and sheared fasteners.

I remove my spark plugs annually, if I did them every 5000 mls it would be every 40 years :D
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,346 Posts
Spark plugs also have a crush washer that aids in sealing.
 

·
the older I get.the faster I was
Joined
·
1,627 Posts
Actually if you put any sort of anti-seize compound on the plug thread the 'correct' torque goes out of the window. Manufacturers assemble critical components dry and the subsequent recommended torque settings are dry to eliminate any variation in clamping force and/or stripped threads and sheared fasteners.

I remove my spark plugs annually, if I did them every 5000 mls it would be every 40 years :D
This is out of the Harley shop manual.
Put Locktight anti-seize on the spark plug threads and torque to 12 to 18 foot lbs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
Very interesting thread and trust me, you're not the first to deal with this. All great suggestions and if I can add just one...get yourself a can of either PB Blaster or even better....Kano Kroil.....and soak the entire threaded area several times over a period of 24 hours before attempting a removal. Should ease the removal of what remains.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,295 Posts
Mmmmmh,i dont believe in the Vibrations.I remember found a short Info about Antisize on Sparkplugs,disturbing the Contact between Plug&Head wich occurs several? Problems to the Ignition System.?Mmmmmmmh,i dont believe in this too but.............

Im using AS since 40 Yrs so what.:confused:.
The only AS i dont use anymore is the Molycote Stuff.
Copper or any other Metall is my Goal.
Also using this on the Motor/Coverbolts
Todays SparkPlugs working for Yrs,More than 30000 mls.Modern Pistonrings,Injecton a.s.o. keep the Plugs free from Oil.
Maybe this is the Problem Plugs will Size to the Head.These little tiny Plugs today are prone to fail sooner or later?.
So take em out once a Year or so i never had these Problem in 40 Yrs(Lucky).And No,i still have no Torque Wrench after 40 Yrs.;).People from the Past are happy im able to do a small Service for 60,-$ in my Garage plus Materials instead of 330,-$ at the Dealer.So what.Keep on wrenching Boys,the XR makes it easy today.Change the Plugs on a 990 KTM is a Mess...))))).
 
1 - 20 of 41 Posts
Top